Here’s an interview I gave on the Voice of Islam radio station, broadcasting out of London, on their Drive Time show on the 28th April 2022. The theme of the show explored the idea of collective consciousness, and lasted an hour involving a number of guests. I appeared alongside Dr Steve Gimbel (Professor of Philosophy at Gettysburg College, Pennsylvania) and Dr Philip Goff (Associate Professor of Philosophy at Durham university). I spoke about common beliefs and symbols across ancient cultures, and gave my view on Jung’s theory of the collective unconscious. This is my third appearance on the Voice of Islam – thank you kindly to host Imam Safeer and to producer Nabeela Shah. My segment appears between 37.00 – 50.13
Interview on the Voice of Islam radio station about ancient religion and Jung’s collective unconscious
About the Author: Lara Atwood
I am a practitioner and researcher into the ancient Religion of the Sun, and most specifically the Indo-European branch of it, which is my own native tradition. I am author of the book 'The Ancient Religion of the Sun,' - a religion that I believe is one of the most ancient in the world, and the origin of many spiritual traditions and sacred sites around the globe. I run the YouTube channel SakroSawel and the website sakrosawel.com ("sakro sawel" means "sacred sun" in the Proto-Indo European language).
Great interview!
And amazing discussions here as well.
Thanks everyone!
Another lovely interview. Thanks for sharing this with us, Lara. I really enjoyed the format of the show and the genuine questions from the host.
I was particularly interested to hear your take on Jung’s theory of the collective unconscious. You expressed those four alternative explanations so succinctly and clearly (you covered so much in just a couple of minutes), and they each sound quite credible, especially the first explanation on the common source.
Your past life explanation made me wonder how much from our past lives we take with us going forward. I imagine our essence over time learns to discern good and evil through the karma paid from one lifetime to the next. But since we usually don’t have a memory of our past lives, I never really thought much else carried forward. And when you look at all the cruelty in the world today, I sometimes wonder if even the learning from karma carries forward.
Hi Lara,
So great to hear your interview with Voice of Islam again ! And yes, reincarnation is an important part of many religions in the world, including Buddhism as well as Chinese folk religion which many in the population practice. I have heard before that reincarnation was also part of the early Christian belief, but was removed from the doctrine by the Church in order to control the belivers. In terms of common symbols I think the Flower of Life is undoubtedly an important one, one is found in many ancient cultures( there’s even one on my blanket which I see every time I wake up and go to bed),I read about its meanings but forgot about them though. I also learned about the cyclical nature of all things when I was in a certain state of consciousness, that everything in nature moves through cycles,but interestingly it was being represented through a spiral instead of concentric circles, indicating that it each cycle is similar to each other but never exactly the same. In the grand cycles of time,there are cycles that are better or ” lighter” than others,and there are other periods where the cycle is darker. Personally I am going through a period of darkness in my life, where I am suffering from severe anxiety,depression and problems with sleep. I have seen many doctors, including neurologists and psychiatrists and was prescribed many different kinds of sleeping pills and antidepressants. They help in some way but at the same time their side effects are also strong. I can feel how these medications mess with my brain how my mind is being altered by these chemicals that I take in. I somehow know that the ture cure for my disorder comes from within the next spiritual realm, but I struggle to reconnect to it like I used to because of my current situation. I am considering trying traditional Chinese herbal medicine soon,which views the human body in a holistic,and partially spiritual way, unlike the completely materialistic perspective that modern medicine takes on viewing humans as nothing more than machines that run on biochemical energy with programs encoded inside the DNA of every one of our cells with the ultimate purpose is to make copies of themselves and expire after just a few decades,and parts of the machine get recycled into nature,and that’s pretty much the end of us. It can be really dangerous if we fall into this view,thinking that we are nothing more than material entities that work in ways similar to machines or robots. I have recently fallen into this view and forgotten about my Spiritual Self,which causes a lot of pain and agony within me. I really shouldn’t have forgotten about the Higher Self whose existence is not completely dependant on the physical body,which is the truth about our existence. I have also been having a lot less spiritual experiences recently probably due to this reason. This interview had been uplifting and I think the universe is telling me I must work hard on something within myself in order to grow and develop more spiritually,I still haven’t figured out what exactly that is yet. I think throughout my life I have also experienced light and dark periods of time, they alternate and seem to come and go in a cyclical fashion like that of Yin and Yang. Just like how the sun sometimes disappears and darkness has its role in the natural order of things, sufferings also have a place in life where it offers opportunities for us to learn and grow.
Hey there Emily,
That’s unfortunate to hear, as I was hoping things would be a bit better.
I don’t have much advice to give as I’m not a medical professional or know your situation or what the divine’s plan of learning is for you right now. But maybe putting forward some points about my own life recently, which to me seem a bit similar, could be of a little bit of use.
Sometimes holding on to certain goals, ones which the divine is not asking of us, can make us put unhealthy pressure on ourselves that can be out of place for the time. Letting go then is key. But that can be difficult to allow ourselves to do. However it’s good to realise that that is not the same as choosing easy and idleness when the times were there when we should’ve been working hard. In my view you were working extremely hard, in research, in bringing it to people, and in inwardly facing your personal hardships.
I hear you in relation to wanting to feel the connection to the divine as strongly as in other periods (and that yearning can be made even more severe when we’re submerged in depression. ) But the level of that bond is not entirely up to us. And the experiences we receive for example happen according to what they feel we need and is suitable at the time, not always when and as we wish and we can’t force this (or not too much at least :-).)
Mmh… even if you’re not able to get the level of practice and connection you’d want right now, it might be more out of your hands than you think?, and the divine meanwhile understands your situation and perfectly knows where your heart is at. So maybe don’t beat yourself up too much (if you are) and rest a bit in knowing that they know. And I’m sure they’ll be coming to with caring guidance in dreams.
I cannot give medical advice in this case. Personally I’ve always tried to avoid drugs which could have an impact on my mental functioning, unless it would be something that’s really really necessary. And I’ve seen cases, in others, where it was really necessary, to rectify chemical deficiencies/imbalances to get things back on track. But I think in modern medicine drugs are prescribed for things that could be dealt with in other ways.
To share a bit as well. I’m also trying to find a way to maintain a practice, in changed circumstances that are not so intense as before and so pushing myself then is not fitting. But – like you say – forgetting about my spiritual self is certainly also not it. So what is the way? How to practice?
One thing I realised in the evening (in those moments when I’m faced with how poorly I did that day) is that I want to do it, but I simply hadn’t remembered myself enough throughout the day. I figure that one thing to help with that is choosing a practice or approach and really sticking to it enough so that it starts to break through the daydreaming. The materialistic sleepwalking of people in this world certainly is frightening, but to see it within myself a thousand times more so!
Hi Emily, sorry to hear about all the struggles you have been through! It does sound like a psychological problem to me, but only you can find its cause… Also to say the truth, I was thinking about how you can cope living in a country so dominated by materialism. I mean, of course there is a lot of materialism in other countries too in this dark age, but communism has its own “psychological shallowness” to it, which can really weigh a person down, making you feel like there is nothing to “uplift the spirit with” so to speak. I also grew up in socialism/communism, but fortunately when I started seriously searching for the spiritual, this regime has already fallen, and people were hungry for anything spiritual, and the whole energy in the country was more light, enthusiastic, explorative and open to the mystical things. I also made efforts to connect more with the people abroad that were into the same things as me, including physical visits, etc…
Also maybe I can mention that I had a Chinese/Vietnamese friend before, and she told me she always felt strange about connecting with “foreigners” or people who were not Asian (even though she lived in the United States). But after some years she told me that she realised that we were all really the same, and that she could imagine herself living among people in Europe for example (after she visited here), as the lifestyle here felt more close to her than the one of the U.S. Now I am not saying this to suggest you to move anywhere, just wanted to say that maybe opening yourself more towards other influences, people, countries, could be a refreshing thing. I mean opening also internally, not just externally living somewhere, but not really being close to anyone from the “other” cultures…
Anyway, hope I am not putting my nose into your problems too much, just wanted to share this bit with the hope of maybe some different view of the situation. If it does not apply to you at all, then please forget it!
Wishing you a lot of strength and success with the traditional Chinese medicine to regain your health.
P.S.: My husband and I also have flower of life carved into the headboard of our bed, seeing it each time we go to sleep. :-)
Dear Emily,
It is always a pleasure for me to read your contributions here on this site. I enjoy your analysis of whatever it is that you are reading, exploring, learning here and elsewhere, and your points of view. I agree with what you say about things going in cycles, I have often seen these cycles come and go in my life depending on how aware I have been at the time. There can be no gain without some form of pain on this Earth. That is why we are told that this life here is a school of learning, if we want it to be so.
But I am also very sorry to hear of your health problems, and as I was reading through this was thinking precisely of Chinese Medicine, and then you yourself mentioned it :)
I sincerely hope that you are able to find a solution very soon. Take care of yourself and best wishes on your journey!
Hi Emily. I’m sorry to hear that you’ve been suffering with anxiety and depression. All I can say is to keep on moving forward, keep on praying to your Inner Being and Divine Mother for guidance, and know that we’re all struggling in our own way. You’re never alone.
Wishing you much guidance and strength to move forward through this difficult time.
Hi Emily, I also am no medical practitioner.. but from my own life, I have found that with depression, anxiety and insomnia there is no easy remedy – but within them are great clues of the self, and what makes up who we are, and how we grew up to behave and think the way we do. There is also the light within us, even if we can’t always grasp it. But it is there, in everything we do, even as we look out to see the world, it is never too far away. Sometimes a few small changes to break the routine can have a great effect, ie. some uplifting music or reading a sacred book, being in nature etc..
Sometimes spiritual experiences are not always as they seem. I have found sometimes that spiritual “droughts” where we are in great want of spirituality, have a lot of lessons of their own, and could be great gifts in disguise. Periods of darkness, where our errors are highlighted, are not necessarily a bad thing, in fact they could be one of the best things that could happen to us. If we think we are always doing well, we will never see room for improvement, and could easily ignore our shortfalls.
When depression gets hardest, I found talking to an open listener can help take a lot of weight off our shoulders, and allow us to formulate a logical process of thoughts, rather than having it bottled up or be in a constant overwhelming blur as though the depression rules one’s every move.
As I continue to learn to cope and overcome my own insomnia, I am finding that insomnia settled in almost as a pattern/routine that my body started to get used to. I find trying to break out of this routine, and come back to my normal sleeping style is the way out, and not giving “credit” to this new routine that has taken over. In other words, trying not to acknowledge that insomnia is there, as this tends to be a worry in it of itself. So far its been slowly working, but I am still investigating :)
Good luck to you Emily, as others have mentioned its so great to hear from you and read about your pursuits and experiences, and I wish you all the best with everything you are going through.
Sorry to hear people are having difficulties with insomnia. I did for some time awhile ago at the beginning of an illness, and something I was taught or picked up somewhere really helped with it.
It sounds counterintuitive, but if you’re having trouble falling asleep, it can really help to deliberately lie in bed and try and stay awake. Pick a spot on the ceiling, and focus on it with your eyes open, and do everything you possibly can to try and stay awake and keep focusing on the spot, even to the point of if you feel your eyes starting to close, you make yourself open them again and keep going back to focusing on the point on the ceiling. Your mind might have thoughts around it not working, what you’re doing being silly etc. but as much as possible just ignore them and go back to focusing on the point on the ceiling. I found if I did that I would fall asleep quite quickly, I think because the act of concentrating brings on sleep.
Wishing you all the best with everything you’re going through Emily, you seem quite resilient from your other comments here, so I’m sure you’ll make it through.
Hey Emily,
Lots of wise words from people here already – helpful for me too! I echo what others said already about sometimes feeling isolated from the divine is part of the process of moving towards it actually. Sometimes when I’m going through dark times reading the chapters about the equinoxes and how they represent the struggle for the consciousness helps. It’s horrible though when you’ve been through something of an ‘awakening period’ and then you feel like you’ve lost it. You’ve just got to struggle on and hold yourself together until circumstances change and things arrive that naturally help life you up and have faith that they will, if you keep going. I’m sure everyone here knows the feeling of the symbolic internal winter, when the light withdraws and only the cold and dark can be felt. But, there’s always spring.
I love Chinese Medicine, I think it’s a rare medical discipline that links us back to a time when the body wasn’t reduced to a machine. There’s so much wisdom in cycles it depicts, I think it holds the whole cosmos within its yin-yang and five elements theory. It teaches us how to live in harmony with nature’s cycles to stay physically and emotionally well. I believe though that the deceptively-named ‘Traditional Chinese Medicine’ (compared to ‘Classical’ or ‘Five Elements’) is the form that is most removed from its esoteric wisdom, because it had to go through modification to survive a leaning towards Western medicine and to be accepted during the Cultural Revolution. Either way, it’s got to be more holistic than conventional drugs-based medicine and you must have some amazing practisioners in China! Hope you feel the spring arrive soon :-)
Hi Emily,
I’ve always read the experiences you’ve shared with interest and have been meaning to reply for some time. I’m sorry to hear about the issues you’ve mentioned over recent months and can relate a lot, as I’ve had 6 bouts of fairly severe depression over the last 25 years, mostly in connection with some extremely debilitating chronic illnesses over the last 10 or so years. But fortunately the depression has significantly reduced over the last 4 years and although I still get passing low moods like anyone else, it doesn’t have the negative impact on my life that it once had. The issues I had with anxiety and insomnia have also reduced significantly during that time.
I wanted to share with you some of my own experiences to give you encouragement that difficulties don’t need to last for ever, even though it may seem there is no way out of the circumstances we face. I’ll share a few details, but will try and keep them fairly brief, as my comment is still quite long. I hope that it may still be possible to read through a longer comment though, as it could potentially be of help to you and others.
The thing I wanted to share in particular is regarding a powerful experience of divine help, which came during probably one of the darkest periods in my life. To put things into context, it came on the back of a series of difficult and often traumatic events, which occurred over a 16 year period from early childhood to early adulthood. This was followed by systemic chronic illness over many years, affecting much of my body’s functioning, which makes it difficult and painful to do many of the everyday things that most people take for granted. I dealt with things as best as I could, but the restrictions caused by severe illness, combined with the various past traumas resurfaced in a dramatic way during a particularly challenging series of events, which also unfolded over many years.
Many of the traumatic early experiences had a profound impact on the formation of my personality and interactions with the world. But as is often the case with trauma, most people I know remain largely aware of the majority of these personal experiences, which can unfortunately allow their impact to increase beneath the surface. I won’t go into all the details, as it would be far too long, but to give a very simplified account, some of the experiences included serious illness, hospitalisation and death of close family members, periods of homelessness, verbal and physical bullying and occasionally more serious physical assaults. One of these assaults required hospital intervention and in another, I narrowly avoided a potentially serious brain injury by literally a few seconds, during a weaponised attack.
There were of course many other difficulties occurring on top of that, but in particular the impact of needing to be on hyper alert on a daily basis over many years, in order to avoid assault when simply leaving the house undoubtedly impacted my health in negative ways later in life, which still have a significant impact on my ability to carry out most activities of daily functioning.
But despite the often devastating impact of these various life experiences, I’ve later come to feel that in some ways I got a lucky break, as I’ve realised that without that darkness, we don’t really gain a deep understanding of ourselves or others. So I agree with your comment that we can learn a lot by going through darkness, which often remains hidden in the subconscious unless its exposed, influencing our lives in negative ways. But once light is shone on the darkness, we can gain a far deeper understanding of it, and how it influences us and others.
I’ve also realised that most people are basically the same psychologically, it’s just that they don’t know what’s buried deep within them, which Jung refers to as the shadow self, as discussed in the interview by another guest. I started studying psychology academically nearly 30 years ago and have maintained a strong interest in it since. But I’ve found that the spiritual work Mark and Lara have investigated has allowed me to go far deeper into understanding my own psychology than any amount of academic study could ever provide.
In fact, I honestly don’t know how I would have got through the various difficulties I’ve encountered over recent years without it. Although I’ve worked in mental health settings professionally, it’s unfortunate that there is a lack of shared experience, which in turn gives practitioners less of a toolbox to really help others in need, as this knowledge is often most valuable when it comes through lived experience, rather than through theory.
For example, I had pre-conceived ideas about China and its culture, based on what I’d learnt through Western media. But this knowledge was still fairly superficial, as it was simply a repetition of what others had said or written. I gained a greater understanding after briefly visiting China and living with a Chinese friend, but my overall experience is still superficial in comparison to the far deeper understanding you’ve gained though being immersed in Chinese culture over many years.
Regarding traditional Chinese medicine, it seems worthwhile looking into an area of study that looks at the body and mind as a whole, rather than a collection of separate parts, as can be the case in Western allopathic medicine. I’ve benefited from the knowledge and experience of practitioners in both mainstream and natural medicine over the years and have also studied or worked in health and social care for over 20 years, as well as having a keen interest in natural health care for the same period of time. I’d like to share some of the things I’ve found to be beneficial, as I also had regular insomnia for 9 years, in connection with chronic physical illness, although it’s more under control now. I’ll save those for another time though, to avoid writing too long a comment.
So going back to the experience of divine help I mentioned, the insomnia I had was definitely anxiety related, as I was experiencing panic attacks. It’s a very long story again, but it came during a period in which I was unable to leave home independently for several years, due to some chronic illnesses, which are still ongoing. But it was also a culmination of the impact of past trauma, which had been fermenting beneath the surface for a much longer time.
The set of circumstances were very unusual and occurred around the time of the spring equinox a few years back. I found myself in a situation where I was basically in solitary confinement in a property, due to extreme weather conditions disrupting road access, and being unable to leave the house on foot, due to my poor physical health. I had lived alone for 3 years when in better health, so had become accustomed to a certain level of social isolation. But this set of circumstances brought about a much deeper experience of isolation, which allowed the impact of past events to resurface unexpectedly.
Some other things also happened, such as my internet connection becoming disrupted, which couldn’t be fixed, due to the stormy weather. As the mobile phone signal was also poor, I ended up cut off from the outside world in a far more intense way than in previous years. Some weird things also happened and I suspect there may have been some supernatural influence in the property, due to its age and location and the comments of a previous tenant, but unfortunately I didn’t ask the previous tenant to elaborate, so can’t be sure.
But what I can be sure of is the terror I experienced was of a level that I hadn’t experienced before, even when going through the violent assaults I mentioned. Due to the experiences in my personal and professional life, I’ve developed a very logical and common sense mindset, as I never wanted to follow the route of the many people I’ve known over the years whose inability to distinguish between reality and fantasy has brought about devastating consequences in their lives and the lives of others. But I began to worry whether I would have the psychological stamina to continue to withstand the severe set of restrictions and challenges that I’d experienced over many years.
This worry, combined with fairly severe depression, resulting from my physical restrictions over so many years, led to panic attacks for a brief period of time. At first I thought it was an eruption of claustrophobia, after being mainly housebound for a number of years. But I saw that there were deeper aspects to it, as the anxiety still lingered on the occasions when I was able to go outdoors. I kept praying for help and guidance, but none came. So I began to feel completely alone and abandoned in a meaningless universe.
The anxiety disrupted my sleep and I continued to pray for help during my insomnia. Then a particular prayer unexpectedly brought about new insight and understanding. I was appealing to my divine mother to help me understand the issues that were driving my anxiety and to my surprise, I saw very clearly how the impact of past events were still affecting my life in significant ways. It was similar to the “life review” that some people report during near-death experiences, where images from the past flash by at a fast pace. But it was in some ways more remarkable for me to experience something similar, as I’m one of the small group of people who don’t usually see images in my mind’s eye, unless I’m either drifting into sleep and dreams, which researchers refer to as aphantasia.
Although my dreams are visually detailed, I’ve never had the experience in waking life of having images pop into my mind when reading a book, listening to a radio drama or following verbal directions, as I’m much more musically minded. I can sometimes bring about vague mental images if I make a conscious effort, like when doing mental arithmetic. But images don’t just pop into my head automatically, just as I don’t have numbers running through my head, unless I’m trying to calculate something.
In this case though, the sequence of images I saw was definitely not a result of me trying to reconstruct events from the past in a logical step by step way, as the flow of images was spontaneous and allowed me to see connections between past events that I couldn’t possibly have fathomed out through logic and reasoning, which went much deeper into my psychological core. The experience had a profound impact and gave me the realisation that there was divine support, even though it had appeared hidden and unseen for a long period of time. The panic attacks stopped literally overnight and I haven’t had another in the 4 years since.
I don’t want to portray the experience as an instant fix though, as other events also followed in my daily life, which made a big difference. The biggest of all was that I regained enough physical stamina to leave home independently, albeit with a disability vehicle, due to some of the natural health treatments I’d been trying eventually paying off. But the increase in psychological stamina also allowed me to appear in public alone as a clearly disabled person, without the fear that had resulted from my past learning that any sign of weakness or difference was automatically a target for hostility and attack, due to the casual violence in the area where I grew up.
I also met a very good local friend soon after and appreciated the support of a few close friends who were willing to listen and allow me to talk through some of the events that had occurred over the years. At the same time, I also took part in some support groups for people going through chronic illness, learnt some other mindfulness techniques and spoke with a CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) practitioner, which is a well known technique in mainstream psychology to look into how our thoughts influence our behaviour.
The overall understanding I gained was invaluable when it came to the covid lock downs, as I dreaded going back to being housebound again after experiencing the isolation it brought about over several years. But to my pleasant surprise, I actually enjoyed the lock downs a lot, partly due to the peace and quiet it brought and partly due to the kindness of some local friends and neighbours. But more than that, I also came to realise that although I’d felt a failure in many ways due to being on the fringes of society for many years and often criticised or ridiculed for being unable to meet society’s expectations, I saw that all the achievements and privileges that others around me had were very fragile and could be taken away instantly, ultimately leaving people with very little in the long run.
I also reflected how my experiences over the years had left me with a kind of psychological vaccination, as opposed to the medical vaccination, which I decided not to pursue, after weighing up its potential risks, versus benefits. This prepared me for the experiences that many people struggled with during the lock downs, as the level of restriction imposed seemed so minor in comparison to what I’d already gone through. As a side note, my research into natural treatments helped me a lot when I actually caught the covid virus, but the increase in psychological stamina also allowed me to be of far greater assistance to those close to me who didn’t recover as well as I did from the virus, which brought about its own longer term issues in their and my life.
I do hope you’ll be able to build upon the psychological stamina you’ve already demonstrated, as it’s clear you have a good level of persistence and determination to gain knowledge about yourself and the world around you. I hope you’ll be able to find the opportunity to share your own experiences with people you trust, like your friend Ling Ling, who you mentioned before. I hope Ling Ling is better in her own health and I also hope you’ll be able to get some good practical advice from health care practitioners, whether in natural or mainstream medicine. And most of all I hope that whatever happens, you’ll be able to keep the hope alive within yourself and to keep persisting through whatever difficulties may appear in life!
Take care!
What a remarkable experience Michael. I’d always wondered if such experiences were possible, and whether the divine would intervene in such a way in waking life if the situation were dire enough.
You’ve been through a lot. I think your account shows how after much struggle and persistence you’ve come through with strength and understanding, which has even allowed you to be a support to others, rather than needing to be supported. It’s also liberating that you were able to feel a sense of peace simply being on your own. I think that speaks volumes to your personal endurance and growth.
Hi Lara, James and Olga,
Thanks very much for your messages and encouragement. It’s much appreciated.
@Lara – There have been a few other significant situations in everyday life that seemed perfectly timed. The circumstances I mentioned were around the time of the spring equinox, but not on the equinox itself. But a few other events took place actually on solstice and equinox days.
The first was on the spring equinox another year, when I received a letter that could’ve had a very negative impact on my daily life. The second was a tribunal I had to go before on the summer solstice, which was related to the letter. The third was a crop circle of an angel that I saw on the autumn equinox, when I was well enough to fly by plane. It was pure chance I saw it, as I never take window seats, but happened to get up to stretch my legs and there it was when I looked out the window on the main entrance door.
I took the angel image as a good omen, along with a lapel badge, which the tribunal judge was wearing on his suit. It had the yin and yang symbol on it and he seemed a decent guy, as opposed to the other two on the panel, who seemed keen to trip me up in their questioning and looked sour. The outcome of each of those situations was favourable in the end and I find their timing interesting.
Thanks for sharing that Michael. Sometimes its hard to understand the great difficulties we must go through in life.
Reading your account, it becomes clear what one can attain; strength, fortitude, persistence etc. Also huge opportunities to shed light on darkness that can surface. Really inspiring
Dear Michael, reading through your experiences left me quite lost for words, many battles seem to be invisible and unbeknownst to the outside world, but as mentioned above, provide a testament to your enormous inner strength and never ceasing good character of kindness and support.
Just a small tip for the sleep issues, as I also have a tendency to think too much and staying up late, and then having troubles falling asleep…
What is helping me now is more physical activity (in my case working hard in the garden, which is quite big), which makes my body more tired (in a nice way, not like back and eyes pains from computer :-O), and then my head gets clearer too, and I fall asleep not even knowing how…
Wishing everyone peaceful and lucid nights!
Hi Emily,
Sorry to hear you’re having a rough time. Some very wise words shared by others.
A few years back I also had a super tough time psychologically, due to some unfavourable life events, which resulted in my body being ill.
A great Chinese herbalist was recommended to me – who over the course of about 8/9 months significantly improved my health. I strongly recommend – but try and seek out a great one. You don’t sound too happy taking the antidepressants / chemicals etc , so a natural remedy could be the answer. In conjunction to the Chinese herbalist I also saw an incredible naturopath, and begun exercising a lot.
Depression & anxiety are no fun. One thing i’ve learned is that low states are not permanent, time will lift them, it won’t last forever. What has significantly helped me ( as you are probably aware ) is asking. Ask for help, ask for it to be gone, ask your higher self/divine mother. When you’re feeling low you don’t feel like taking action, but do your best.
I’ve been told that sometimes the divine ones give you periods of darkness to test and see how you go on your own. But what I feel in my heart is that you never really are alone. Wish you all the best, don’t give up!
Once again very informative and interesting interview, it is really refreshing to hear these presenters genuinely interested in what you were presenting and how they can see the relationship to other teaching although mainly to Islam. It is a pity we don”t hear more of the Spiritual Sun in the main stream. Thanks again Lara for the interview
Thank you Lara for sharing the interview – very interesting! Also thank you to the host and the producer – sadly such important topics are rarely discussed anywhere these days, so I am very grateful for the opportunity to listen to the talk.
Such a quality show and information. Great you were back on there Lara. I appreciated the excellent summary of what Jung’s work is about at the start also, getting a good sense of it in 30 minutes or so due to the person having studied it well and thus able to get a picture across in this way.
If we’re talking subconscious mind… These shows have also been a bit of an opportunity to notice some of my own defensiveness of my beliefs, a background worry of ‘will a moment come where religious viewpoints collide’. Actually it’s not even that I am stuck to any belief of any kind, that’s not it. Getting to the bottom of it I think what’s behind that defensiveness is fear of sparking negativity towards myself and that that would come to endanger my personal spiritual pursuit.
Although understandable perhaps, it’s certainly out of place when the exact topic, and even the lived nature, of this show is the opposite – everyone’s connectness, the joint eagerness to learn, respectfulness which is this choice of love – seeing its above differences below.
Makes me think now, not realising it before, just special this show happening is.
A completely separate note. I wish there was more metaphysical experience had among people in general. The topics and questions, insights from guest speakers, the sincere devotion, the yearning to learn from the hosts etc. is all so spot on. Would be great if metaphysically geared practice would be more standard as part of it all.
Thank you Lara for the effort of getting on the show, and also for mentioning and sharing the link.
I think it’s great you were able to observe that worry within yourself Karim, as I feel it’s so important to remove all those kinds of fears in order to be able to talk about spiritual beliefs and ideas in an open and relaxed way. Certainly the hosts and producers of the show would’ve had to overcome them to a degree in order to have the kind of show they do.
Great to see you on the show again. In a nice little ‘synchronicity’, I had listened to a compilation of quotes from Jung just before I saw this post! I think Jung was one of the first influences that encouraged me spiritually. He is obviously such a well-respected thinker, philosopher and psychologist yet has such an esoteric depth to him. I found his concept of synchronicity something so fascinating and experimental I used to see if I could follow the ‘clues’ from these meaningful coincidences, what I would now call ‘acting on intuition’ or similar, and ask questions to the ‘unknown’ to see if it would answer. And it did, of course! This was how I first sort of proved to myself that there was something I was able to interact with that I couldn’t see, but that was capable of influencing physical events and speaking to my heart directly in a sort of secret, symbolic, very personal language. Recently I dipped into a book by Jung and was inspired by it to intensify my dream-work. The amount of insight and depth of detail his dream observations and analysis have is incredible, and how he helped his patients overcome neuroses through that. I believe towards the end of his life he said that he would have gone more into the study of the esoteric if he had his time again, and I think his research into the mystical went further than is commonly understood, or that he was able to use in his public teachings. Hopefully one day, the people who study his teachings around the world will come to see the link between his concept of universal symbols and the Religion of the Sun.
Hi Ella,
It seems Jung’s work on dreams was his best contribution – the way he took them so seriously as symbolic messages that could be used for one’s personal development. It’s remarkable how many meaningful dreams he had, and how he used them to guide his own work. It seems he was given them because of the influence he would have, and because he was so receptive to it.
It’s a shame he wasn’t able to take his study into the esoteric further. Perhaps if he did, he would have been able to discover more about the reality of the dream world and other dimensions. He might, for example, have been very interested in some of the more modern accounts of NDEs that prove people go to a real place after death.
It’s interesting to look back at key moments in time where science was taking its first steps away from the spiritual, whether it was Freud’s rejection of religion, or Galileo’s separation of consciousness from the realm of science, or even Jung’s misinterpretation of the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Concessions were made in order to further human knowledge, at the expense of a wholistic knowledge. Science began to break into pieces that were studied separately from the core human experience and questions. That subtle rift has grown over hundred’s of years, to the point where it’s now basically heresy in Western cultures to hold beliefs that have the fragrance of religion.
What the 3rd speaker called the “hard problem” of philosophy, is essentially the fact that we are conscious, and that there is no logical nor scientific explanation as to why. Like he says, it’s a gaping hole in the West’s understanding of the universe.. I suppose what is now the “hard problem” was once considered the first stepping stone to knowledge.
Really interesting topics, questions and answers! Maybe I could just add about the sun not being visible that it simply shows how our senses are not advanced enough to see through matter… the planet rotates, rotating around the sun, that is always there, we can still feel its warmth, the sun is as permanent as all that we know on Earth, and is the best symbol of God, the easiest way to perceive the Divinity (the Creator of All Suns).
Thanks for your comments Vadim. I think you’ve made some interesting points. Sometimes it can be as simple as witnessing the rising or setting sun in a state of quietness and prayer to give us spiritual strength and guidance.
Thank you Lara for sharing another wonderful show on The Voice of Islam, its really nice to see an open-minded station that gives space to the opinions from people of different backgrounds, professions, or even religions. I have found the input of the first professor on C. G. Jung to be quite informative and his way of explaining very clear and engaging too. I have never looked into the work of Jung, but from his explanation it seems to me like it may have been Jung’s life mission to translate the perennial spiritual truths into the “modern” language of philosophy for the more materialistic people of our age. The concept of “collective unconscious” is amazing when one realizes that nothing like that had been discussed in the official science before, and how it opened people’s minds to the possibility of hidden other-dimensional connections between individual beings.
I also found your answer to the reincarnation to be really well and comprehensively communicated in a very short time slot. Especially how you stressed that reincarnation is not in any conflict with the belief in the afterlife, and then also how you included it in your answer to the host’s question about collective unconscious at the very end of your segment, as one of the possible explanations to why some people (like those Jungian psychiatric patients for example) may be acting out stories or concepts they had no knowledge of or access to in their own culture or environment.
What also stood out to me was that saying of Abraham that the host quoted at around 44:00, about how it is somehow Sun’s fault and a proof of its “inadequacy” that it disappears for the night. While in fact, it is the Earth that turns itself away from the Sun for that period of time. Metaphorically then, its not God/Sun who “disappears”, but it is the man who turns himself away from God so that there is darkness as a result.
It would also be interesting to know if there have been any questions or comments on Lara’a inputs so far by the listeners of this station.
The sun being out of visible sight as an argument doesn’t quite hold up, other angles would be that there would be no day without night etc.
But the meaning of that lesson/event/story is, I think, that in that case people had come to worship an image, rather than the real God and that that would be unwise to do as one would be left empty-handed. It’s a valid lesson and I can see how a Muslim now, or a Christian etc., who feels they’ve got a more direct link to the highest god, and were raised and taught in strict texts (‘Thou shalt have no other gods before me’) to obviously be wary of giving their life to a material object or image or contemporary ideologies.
But as Lara puts forward it is now becoming much more clear that some of those major millennia-lasting humankind-shaping ancient cultures were in fact not worshipping idols or immature in their beliefs, but were geared to the spiritual high god in a great way, as their expressions show.
Yeah, the only problem with that lesson/event/story is that the Sun is not an “image”. Its a living celestial being, a source of life, and where many “sparks” originated, as we are “made from the stuff of stars” (the expression Lara uses in her book and which I saw in some articles on physics too). Its mighty even in its physical form, and it has its counterpart in higher realms, just like we do, and if I understand it correctly, our Being also has its own star, physically as well as in higher dimensions. Personally, I feel Abraham’s argument was misleading, as it is due to the reasonings like this that many people turn themselves away from the spiritual in nature, and start seeing it all as “idols” (that’s why they hate Pagans too) that have nothing to do with a real god, while in fact, its all inter-connected, real, and alive.
Lucia, you have precisely put my thoughts into words when you wrote about man turning himself away from the Sun/God, as the Sun continuously remains at the centre of the Solar System and sustains it. From memory, the Sun is 99.8% of all the mass in the Solar System. The Sun can exist without the Earth (or all the planets), while life on Earth cannot exist without the Sun’s continuous nourishment.
Your words and the topic of the collective reminded me of a certain astral experience from some years ago, in which humanity made a collective choice to turn away from the Sun and the spiritual and chose materialism instead. Only a few individuals stood at a distance from the humanity which was oblivious to the consequences of their tragic choice. And the demons rejoiced in unity. It was not the spiritual/Light that abandoned humanity; the Light respected free will and collective choice, even if it was to bring dire consequences to all humans.
Thank you for sharing your astral experience Slawek, it sounds quite scary! I still hope that even though the majority of the people today may prefer materialism, there is still not an insignificant group of people who sincerely yearn for the unity with the spiritual sun, whether consciously or unconsciously…
I also had an astral experience some time ago when researching a particular culture and their connections to the Religion of the Sun. I found myself in a sort of city/town, but the vibe was not good, it felt like an underground or something. Then I spotted a group of people (of that particular culture) dressed in beautiful white clothes with red ornaments, reminding me of our native Slavic clothes (even though their ornaments seemed to be different). The clothes had a really nice “emanation” to them, so I came closer to those people to explore. As I came closer though, I heard them speaking badly about the Sun, cursing and swearing, etc. As I heard it, I could not hold myself back and became quite emotional, telling them what a shame that with such beautiful clothes they speak in such a shameful way, and how they would be nothing without the Sun, who gives them everything they have, sustains them, etc. Unfortunately, I didn’t hear their reply as the strong emotion I felt within brought me back to my physical body shortly after that. :-( My conclusions from it was that sometimes the whole cultures may be based on denying the spiritual importance of the Sun, or even being very negative/irritated about it, even though their tradition directly stems from the Religion of the Sun (as I think their clothes testified).
A very interesting experience Lucia. It seems to be saying that things may not be as they appear, so that you have no illusions. Even though those people were dressed beautifully based on the tradition of their culture, currently they actually have a very low level of being. So in some ways, something from the past that perhaps was created by a people who did have a higher level of being, is actually masking what the people today are really like. Sad. But it’s far better to be armed with knowledge so that you can approach situations with a true understanding of them.
Hi Lucia,
I think it’s a good observation that people may not always be as they seem at face value. I had a similar kind of dream some years ago, when I was standing at a bus stop, looking for which direction to go. An old man wearing a long white robe, with a white beard and hair and carrying a golden cane stood beside me. He didn’t speak but clearly indicated a direction with the golden cane. He looked like the perfect depiction of a spiritual being, but when I looked into his eyes, I only saw deceit and set off in a different direction.
As I’m sure you’ve noticed, the same story is true in the wider world, where organisations and individuals may present themselves as being of a particular nature, but hide darkness behind the scenes. Yet it surprises me that many people are still so willing to follow certain guru or authority figures, despite any evidence to the contrary.
For example, I can think of a well known Indian guru who had some serious allegations of sexual assault directed towards him, which seemed very plausible from the accounts of some of his alleged victims. The owner of a well-known restaurant chain who followed this guru for many years was asked for his opinion on the matter and replied “It probably IS true! But nothing’s gonna stop me following my guru!”
There are also numerous instances among practitioners of many of the major world religions who at face value appear to be committed believers, yet in practice act in ways that are totally abhorrent. The large scale violence and bloodshed between Hindus and Muslims at the partition of India and subsequent formation of Pakistan and Bangladesh is a terrible stain on history, and atrocities committed by Jews and Muslims continue to the present day in the conflict between Israel and Palestine. Some Muslim extremists in other countries engage in terrorist acts, in a gross distortion of the teachings of Islam, as have paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland who identify as being of Christian denominations.
The rape and murder of the Yazidi people in Iraq, whom Lara mentioned practice remnants of The Religion of the Sun, is also appalling. Similarly, the predominantly Muslim Rohingya people of Myanmar (Burma) are ruthlessly abused within the predominantly Buddhist country and considered “the most persecuted minority in the world” by the United Nations. Likewise, the historic atrocities committed by Christians in their attempts to forcibly convert non-believers or those of different denominations are completely opposed to Jesus’ teachings, as are the violent and murderous acts carried out by groups who consider themselves Christian, such as the Ku Klux Klan.
The historical sexual and physical abuse of vulnerable children and young women within Christian organisations in Australia and Ireland are both known instances of systemic corruption within outwardly pious institutions. But unfortunately, little seems to have been done to prosecute perpetrators even to the present day, with accounts of offenders within the clergy simply being passed onto different parishes as a standard practice, where the offending would of course simply continue.
Jesus’ parable of The Good Samaritan stands in contrast to each of these examples, where those in religious authority ignore the injured man they pass, whereas a man who is not of their religion steps in to help, out of the goodness of his heart. It’s a simple yet powerful parable, which shows how our actions count more than our words, beliefs, the way we dress etc. Something worth keeping in mind in our own lives, as we will each be accountable for our actions when we reach the end of our lives, regardless of how correct we thought they were at the time.
What an experience Slawek. I feel we may be living through the beginning of those consequences now.
I found the show to be interesting to listen back to as well; they have a really varied and thought-provoking format.
I feel it’s a shame Jung became fixated on the theory of the collective unconscious. Like I say in the interview, I think there are other explanations for the evidence he was using to support it. As just one small example, I happened to read the other day that Jung was influenced in some part by an early mis-translation of the Tibetan Book of the Dead. So instead of what should have been translated as the “primordially pure nature of mind” it was translated as the “one mind.” Jung took this to mean the collective unconscious, and because he did not have a good grasp of Tibetan Buddhism, he didn’t realize it doesn’t have such a concept either.
Ancient texts in the religion of the sun state that our true inner Self is of the same substance and nature as that of the supreme creator. This is of course very different to sharing a region of the subconscious or mind.
Unfortunately it seems Jung was out of his depth when delving into spiritual fields, and I think would have needed to practice and to transform his own psyche intensively in order to understand its spiritual dimensions and develop new theories about them.
I tend to agree with your comments about Jung being out of his depth when delving into spiritual fields. I was surprised to read a few years ago that he had a number of extra-marital affairs which doesn’t give me a great deal of faith in his spiritual or esoteric level. I’m not here to judge anyone but from my basic understanding, a certain level of morality/ethics is required to gain true esoteric understanding.
Thanks for sharing. I thought you explained the relationship between the Sun as a representation of the highest form of divinity and the supreme creator discussed in some of the major religions particularly well. Plenty of very interesting information in that interview.